In the grand scheme of things, I would say zero effect. Not sure about the AP2s. Copyright 2023 Mitchell Golf Equipment Company. Ping G30 irons w/Recoil 95 on tight fairways. Yes, I'm a club gigolo. Taylor Made Stealth 10.5 Aldila Ascent Red R flex, Wilson D7 forged 5-GW- Mamiya recoil 460 R flex, Titleist Pro VIxoptic yellow with revkev stamped on them. So I hit my standard 50 yard pitch with a 54* wedge. If you're after a driving iron, I would expect you to use it off the tee for the most part. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Club Repair Seminar shows golfers the importance of checking the specs.. I was 50 yards out on the 3rd hole, and was in the moguls. Or, is the bounce all the same? In turn creating around 12 more yds. If you change your AOA and go 2* steeper, both delivered loft and bounce is reduced by 2* It is very easy to do these modifications, and also recommended by a lot of folks to have your set checked either frequently or at the end of each year in case any changes happened during the season from general play. I'm curious what effect bending the irons 1 or 2 degrees strong would have on the irons playability. So if you have the time, watch this cool video that I really like explaining how important lie angle is for your golf game: Having and knowing the correct lie angle of your clubs will be a game changer, I promise! If you think about it, a flatter lie would be toe down for your swing. Great article! Thats why I recommend that golfers get fit for irons on golf radar by a certified fitter who understands how loft and COG work together in iron design. Iwas wondering if I could bend my 712 AP2 irons strong and not see any changes in the irons. Bravo, As a club fitter who deals with players that purchase equipment based on what their ego tells them they need verses the facts this is a breath of fresh air! I dont like alot of offset so that changes things a little. The trajectory, depending on your swing, should be flatter. Hope I did not complicate this any and maybe helped you, Driver ---- Callaway Big Bertha Alpha Speeder 565 R flex---- 3 wood TM V-Steel Aldila 65G R Flex 15*--- 7 Wood TM V-Steel UST Pro Force 65 R flex 21*---- 9 wood TM V-Steel stock MAS Stiff shaft 24*--- Irons 4 thru 9 Mac Muirfield TT black label --- PW Vokey SM-4 51* stock shaft--- SW Vokey SM 5 L grind 58* stock shaft--- Putter -- Rusty Scotty Santa Fe fluted Bulls Eye shaft---. Anyway, the scorecard couldn't care less what club you hit. Will that change the playability of the irons dramatically? Fairway Metal- Taylormade SLDR Mini Driver 12* w/ Fujikura Rombax TP95-X", Utility- Mizuno MPH5 1 iron w/ Aldila RIP 85X (depending on course/ conditions), Irons- Mizuno MP- FLI HI 2i w/ Aldila Proto ByYou 100X Just curious for those who have personal experience with this as to the answer. It flies lower and that is about it. Humans think theyre logical but when it comes down to it (when the wallet hits the counter), they are controlled by feelings, who they wish they could play like and what company has qualities that match their identity. Using like say an Older Macgregor blade butter knife with a thin sharp leading edge on the sole if you deloft more than 1 degree or so you have a chance of digging to China. When you make the club loft stronger you decrease loft, when you make it weaker you increase the loft. At a club fitting it was pointed out that I had about a 0 aoa and was launching a bit higher than ideal. If its putting or greenside scoring, spend your time working on those aspects instead of beating balls on the range. After a quick gapping review we bent 2 clubs and tried those out which gave a good base to work from. See below the make percentage for an average golfer from varying distances. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Guaranteed that if you looked at your ball speed it was dramatically higher. In some cases "craftsman's" marks on the hosels may result from bending them to the required loft / lie. Couldn't agree more with your entire post. probably best to just change the shaft length), You stand tall over the golf ball when swinging, Your golf ball starts towards the right of your target (left for lefties), You hit the golf ball off the toe of the cub more often causing the clubface to open up and create push or slice. I reckon for every 1 degree off it takes about 250 off the spin. Using a club bending machine to change the angle on a golf club is among the fastest ways to improve a players ball flight. So glad this was posted. By Thanks everybody for the help! I realize this can be affected by angle of attack, swing speed, iron/shaft design, and ball design. Golfers change the lie angle of a club to better their chances of hitting the center of the clubface. As you watch PGA or LPGA golf, you will see very little personalization to this basic fundamental. Fitters have to find some way to raise their ball flight, because those golfers lack the speed necessary to get the best results from many modern iron heads. You are also all correct in that it is a long iron. Bounce follows loft in a 1:1 ratio. One good example comes to mind. I bent them 4 degrees strong to keep my flight down as I hit moon balls with my X700 shafts hardstepped X3 ", Ping G400 Testing G410. Your link has been automatically embedded. Training Aids, GPS Devices, Apps, Accessories & More. All rights reserved. Driver: TM 300 Mini 11.5*, Tour Blue 85 X, 44" -or- Cobra Fly-Z+, Phenom NL 60 X, 44.5", 3w:King LTD, Aldila RIP Beta 90 X -or- TM Stage 2 Tour, NV105 X The fitter can then analyze a golfers swing pattern and adjust the lie angle accordingly. You get to replace the 4 iron thats gone with something you can get in the air. The refit yielded a super driving iron. There you can see exactly what it takes to be an average amateur golfer. I just purchased a new set of 716MB irons. Yes for that particular Ball Speed, the ball can not carry any further with a better stopping power than with those conditions. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. TM TPx. Good question. I should have made the same swing with a 9 iron, to compensate for the lie, but did not. I do not find these to dig at all. Nick so, how much difference can CoG location make to the optimum loft? Started Thursday at 03:24 PM, Please put and questions or comments here, Please put any questions or comments here, Please put any questions of comments here. Add in the added forgiveness of modern irons, and you have a winning combination. And visa versa, if the original bounce is low and/or the club has a sharp leading edge, the reduction in bounce may have a significant impact on playability. Some get more spin, some less. What does the average golfer look like? Well break down what the average golfer (male golfer) looks like and offers data that can be used to benchmark your game against. Yeah, you can bend them strong and not notice the difference in terms of look. Yes, it would make the clubs a little 'longer' (with a lower ball flight), but it might not be worth it, especially if you already take a divot. What do you mean about not seeing any changes in your irons? Sign up to receive product offers and news! Hope this Helps! I did this to reduce the spin rate. "so, any advice, I keep air mailing greens with my PW from 140, this is really hurting my score. In the last six years, Tony Finau and Viktor Hovland both broke their maiden here, whilst after a period of personal tragedy, multiple winner, Branden Grace, bounced back to form. Thats basically what companies are doing anyway. Titleist 818 H1 19 HybridMiura CB-57 4-PW Whether its changing the lie to improve accuracy or changing loft to make sure that the players clubs are progressively consistent, angle bending is a major factor in club performance. 4-6 more yards (depending on club and swing speed) and lower launch with less bounce. The decision wasn't about distance it was about gapping. If they are not bent properly you can change the lie fairly easily unintentionally. Hi Greyson, Bending your irons strong will reduce the bounce of the club. The 4 iron will have a negative bounce if you bend them 2 degrees. A 4 iron only has 1 degree of bounce standard so will I have negative bounce when bent two degrees strong? Some 5-irons are 27. What to consider when bending golf clubs. And here is why. Required fields are marked *. The lightweight speed designs dont seem to help the everyday golfer from the examples I see out on the course. Club design of a particular club can be a factor also. After the death of his mother, Endycott understandably struggled through the late teens, understandably saying that, At the time, golf didnt really matter to me.. 1001 Industrial Blvd
3" = 4.6* and 6" = 9.2* change in loft. Well-regarded at home, he mixed his time in junior golf with the likes of Min Woo Lee and Curtis Luck, during which he finishedrunner-up at The Players Amateur before winning the elite Porter Cup and being part of the victorious three-man Australian team at the Eisenhower Trophy, played partly at El Chamaleon, scene of the Mayokaba events on the PGA Tour. A standard golf shop, or fitting center will be able to do this. Potentially, this would mean the toe digs in and your shots go right (right handed). Ball speed from the new irons is what is creating the distance. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. Routinely, I notice longer than standard 85g shafts with these sets. having a discussion with a friend and we are in disagreement. Ping G400 Max driver w/Aldila Rogue 125 Silver Here are the different ways fitters change the lie angle of a club: A club can either be bent to an upright position (toe higher than heel) or flat (toe lower than heel) usually in increments of 1 or 2 degrees. Custom Edel E-3 Putter, More than likely you will hit the ball a bit farther as well, potentially close to 1/2 a club. After this long introduction, Nick keep preaching this gospel. Not every iron or wedge can be bent. The question is, again, Do you really want to get better at golf?. It is common for the golfers I fit to hit todays irons, which average about 2 degrees less loft per club, as high as their current set (if not higher). Clubs are mass-produced with certain manufacturing variances in every factory. I was wondering if bending my irons 1 to 2 degrees strong at a golf shop will change the playability of the 712 AP2s. The incredible story behind Arnold Palmers $275,000 irons from the 1960s, OLD vs. NEW: TaylorMade Tour Preferred MC 2011 irons vs. My modern irons (Full launch monitor numbers), Legendary club designer Larry Bobka speaks on his new $599 blade irons, What are these?! If you really want to improve your golf, you must define where you are losing the most strokes and start there. Military. Keep the loft the same and take an extra club for the shot. So if you are steep or tend to take a pretty good divot, you may not want to bend them more than a degree. Perhaps the lighter weight is good, but how many people fit into these longer lengths? But loft is a much more important factor in fitting. Since such a precise hit is needed to take advantage of the lower loft, the average distance each club hits the ball tends to converge at lower lofts for less-skilled players. KBS even notes it in the swing speed recommendations for their different model shafts, as their very lightweight steel shafts are about a full flex softer frequency than the standard weight counterpart. He is also 1 of 33 TrackMan Masters in the world, and has completed thousands of successful fittings using TrackMan. Ok thats good to know, the longest iron I carry in the bag is a 6 iron so it wont make that much of a difference then in the long irons. Say you start with a classic blade 7 iron with 40* static loft by how much could you reduce the loft in conjunction with a GI head design without launching the ball lower? Club fitters are able to bend clubs to increase or decrease the lie angle using a loft, lie bending machine. Ordering & Information Forged titanium models are bendable as well due to their softer titanium structure. Ping Glide wedges w/Recoil 110 Not going to dig any more than normal. Now as lower handicappers, we will probably not have our hands at impact fluctuating 3, 4 or 6 inches, but I would not say mine are within an inch of exactly the same place every time. I know some pros naturally hit it higher, and some lower. How will that affect it though? Golfers can see their spin rate drop thousands of RPMs from the rough (depending on the rough and type of lie), so being able to keep their shots in the air with enough spin to stop the ball on the green can be a huge part of helping them shoot lower scores. If the hosel design and manufacturing processes allow it, the lie of an iron can be bent 3-4 degrees or more with no compromise to the integrity of the head. Its not about research or information, its about ego and emotion. 716 MB'S. Offset degrees especially with a long iron can be a factor along with sole design. The most common complaint I hear from golfers looking for new irons is that all the lofts are jacked strong. If someone is playing an iron set, for instance, from the late 1990s or earlier they will most likely find their irons to be 2-to-3 degrees weaker than todays game-improvement irons, and even some players irons. With added ball speed comes more launch. Haven't registered for Team Titleist yet? The risk that the club will break at the hosel is too high. Needless to say, some people need more bounce than others; pickers don't need much bounce but diggers do. No matter what your skill level, you will not optimize your performance with outdated or ill-fitted golf clubs. If your Ball Speed was higher than that, say up to 125, which is a few MPH slower than PGA Tour average, you would want spin to stay within 200-300 RPMs higher, and Launch Angle to come down to about 14*. I am a club fitter also and see this every day. In fact, a sound, fundamental hold on the club is the first step in setting up for a technically sound golf swing. I dont pretend to be an expert, or even close. Sounds like it's a long iron. (I ran into this today.) Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid I do not disagree with you on the long irons Drew, we have hybrids to replace those. Ping G425 5 wood & hybrid I have to explain that the design allows the iron to have a stronger loft. Well this article outlines a variety of statistics which will help you pinpoint which areas of the game you are above or below average. Mizuno irons can be adjusted to varying degrees depending on model and material type. ProV1x-mostly. 716 MB'S It sorts my gapping out perfectly as a result. Started Thursday at 03:24 PM. You may want to try searching if you need more info. Much of Harrison Endycotts claims were covered in the2023 Players To Followlist, but the summary is worth repeating to justify his selection this week. But they will still land on the green as soft as an older set of irons (if not softer). When my first 'proper' set of clubs (MP30s) were done - at the same time as a Driver Shaft fitting - a couple were out considerably (the 6 iron had the loft of a 5!)! Clear editor. Putters have the least loft, usually from 2 to 4 degrees. Here are some of the facts, and fallacies, about club adjustment. I am now thinking I am just going to bend my 712 Ap2 irons to the 714 AP2 specs so my gaps will match up better with my wedges. He hasnt let that chance go, and while the opening nine events certainly havent been stunning seven missed cuts he showed up at Bermuda, finishing 35th after entering Sunday inside the top-15. Watch this great video here if you are curious on how to bend the lie angle of a club using a loft/lie machine: Impact tape is a tape that a club fitter places on the face of the golf club that creates marks of where the golfer struck the ball on the clubface. Your link has been automatically embedded. if we move from a "high launch" to a Low launch shaft, who reduce loft by 2* we also lost 2* bounce. At 100 mph you are obliterating the ground. ***GIVEAWAY*** Cleveland CBX ZipCore Wedge! Low bounce irons can become more digging prone from this change. We'll walk you through the process and offer some simple tips and trick. Clear editor. Privacy Policy 759 Decided to get lofts and lie's double checked on my irons for peace of mind and following a gap check session get them bent 2 degree strong to the original manufacturer loft spec. Novak has made five cuts from seven starts since qualifying, with the most significant results being 17th in Bermuda (another wind-affected coastal course) 12th at the much higher-grade Sony Open and 29th at last weeks Honda Classic. There only seems to be one logical reason to do this and thats just in the odd situation where someone needs more bounce. Please contact Patrick Gallagher at 800-437-1314 or email patrick@mitchellgolf.com. It is a taylormade udi 2i that I want to bend from 18* to 16*. On the opposite and gapping from AW to 9i is very wide about 16 yards about between clubs. I do know a typical modern club the PW has the loft of like an older blade 8 iron. So you bend them 1 degree strong, bounce follows it by a degree. 2023 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 The Honda Classic - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to photos, 2023 Waste Management Phoenix Open - Discussion and Links to Photos, 2023 AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am - Discussion and Links to all photos, Fitness, maximum efficiency for the time spent. The average golfer hits a 7-iron to around 30 yards from the pin. Unless of course it's a long iron and you have a hard time elevating it in the first place. Sure, the top few are valid members of the PGA Tour, all with their legitimate claims in this lowly class, but we then have the likes of Chad Campbell (unranked after not being seen for almost three years) and Frank Lickliter (now outside the world top 3000) bringing up a rear lacks depth. May 23, 2016 at 04:54 PM. Still, someone has to win, and, with such dead wood, punters might smile at this opportunity to nab the winner of an event returning to its status as an opposite event expect LIV to make an offer in 2024. Best of luck.Chuck. Cleveland RTX4 50, 54, 58 But i am talking more along the lines of the bounce, leading edge, etc. Then if your wedge gaps are off you might tweak them a degree. Forged irons should be checked every year or 2 anyway for loft/lie. So the assumption is that the loft alone is what is creating more distance with the new irons. By How Long Do They Last, Driving Iron Advantages and Disadvantages, You are using clubs that are too tall for you (easy fix is to change the shaft length), You stand far away from the golf ball when making a swing. As club fitters, you have to find the balance between measurable results and what the customer THINKS is happening. A golf club can be bent two degrees flat when the lie angle is lowered and the heel of the club is raised to a position that is higher than the toe of the club. The Ever Changing Bag! I draw the ball naturally so I dont want too much offset on the clubs, I think it will be easier if I just go and get some wedges to sort out the gapping issue. Some people prefer a higher or lower, high- or low-spin ball flight for strategic purposes. Adjusting 2 degrees strong will kill the bounce of your irons. Callaway MD 3 48 bent to 50 KBS 610 S+ The average golfer hits 48 percent of fairways. And the opposite is true as the speed drops. These are topics that have been kicked around and that are important in todays market, so articles will most likely be touching on them in the future. Powered by Invision Community. Driver: Charles Kelley whats in the bag accurate as of the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. I changed my Apex pro 19 2 degrees strong. The concern is that all the fitting carts only have 6 irons and with the gaping on the 3, 4 and 5 irons lonely being 3* I am concerned on irons would react to my adjustments. Ping Redwood Anser- the "real deal!". And why really do you need to do it besides being able to brag about hitting the ball farther? In The BagDriver: TaylorMade M2 (2017) w/ Project X T1100 HZRDUS Handcrafted 65xStrong 3 wood: Taylormade M1 15* w/ ProjectX T1100 HZRDUS handcrafted 75x3 Hybrid: Adams PRO 18* w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4 Hybrid: Adams PRO 20* (bent to 21*) w/ KBS Tour Hybrid S flex tipped 1/2"4-AW: TaylorMade P770 w/ Dynamic Gold Tour Issue Black Onyx S400. The ball came out much higher and shorter, just like you would expect from a 63*. I've never had a sand wedge bent, I suppose that could be an issue but if you open the blade a bit the bounce comes back. The Topgolf Blue Flag Challenge: Can you go 5-for-5 from 155 yards? Pros and cons? And provided the hosel of the wood is long enough to allow the bending bar to fit over its length, metal woods can be bent to custom-fit a player. Even the most skilled repair professionals can occasionally break a club. For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lof, Lower launch, lower flight (generally) but you lose some bounce and add offset, Titleist TSi4 8.25* / Fujikura Ventus Black TR 7-X For most players the answer is - MORE than we normally can bend static lofts (plus minus 2*) * MD4 54/10 S-Grind replacedMD3 54/12 W-Grind. TaylorMade Aero Burner TP 15 / Matrix White Tie 70-X question on bending a forged iron 2 degrees strong By ssfranny, January 22, 2019 in WRX Club Techs Reply to this topic Start new topic ssfranny Lefty Boomers 3.5k Feedback 20 0 0 Total Rating 100% Posted January 22, 2019 Have a set of basically new MP 53s I want to bend them 2 degrees strong to make them play more a modern loft. It was suggested that I would bring my launch and spin down a bit with making my irons 1-2 stronger. MyGolfSpy Forum Virtual Golf Tournaments, Forum Featured:Community Map & Course Reviews, By The bounce on irons is pretty much a non starter in my opinion. Mizuno MP59 4i-6I w/ PX 6.5, Wedges- Scratch 8620 Driver/Slider set. The speed of putts is crucial. Im contemplating a set of Mizuno MP-53 irons. I tried it today but I can still hit my 6i farther than my 64 degree lw. This could cause them to dig at impact, and no one wants that. So what makes 15-16 and 6000 RPM ideal? Custom Edel E-3 Putter. Will bending irons 2 degrees strong promote more of a draw ball flight? examples, keep you head down, hit down on the ball, you gotta swing inside out. 1 for 1, loft for bounce. On GI long irons vs players irons have different width soles, are the effects of bounce differ between the two if the loft is a degree stronger? Thanks! Loft is used to get the irons back to the proper launch window. FAQs What still kills me are the guys coming in and demanding a lower lofted driver thinking it will give them more distance. The only way you would see a difference is if you put them side by side with another set of Ap2's that are not bent. 00bolt, September 12, 2016 in WRX Club Techs. people hit it further because of stronger lofts is such a wifes tale. Ping G425 Max 10.5 - Ventus Black 6X or G425 LST Ventus - Black 7X, Ping G425 Max 14.5 - Ventus Blue 7X there comes a time when too much loft jacking is too much. Driver: Cobra Amp Cell Pro (8.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila RIP Phenom 3-wood: Titleist 906F4 (13.5 degrees) Shaft: Aldila NV 7-wood: Michael Hopper whats in the bag accurate as of the WM Phoenix Open. Sitemap. Great answer Blake. That is why getting the numbers is so important. Justin Rose posts mysterious custom JR irons on Instagram. *Performance average removes all outliers good and bad, to give a distance based on how far a well struck shot will go. Taylor Made tour issue M2 T3 Ozik Matrix 8M3 X I realize it is hard to write to such a diverse audience, but Im going to give it my best with this post, and pose the basic two questions to each of you : If the answer to No. Any knowledge on the subject would be appreciated. for the better golfer, these lofts leave nothing at the bottom of the bag.