Does that make my stance clearer? But it is not- God has power over every molecule and can prevent it from messing up his redemptive plan. I have not had that experience. The Calvinist thought process is: God has foreordained every word I say, therefore, I cannot be wrong. I have certainly never heard anything about either topic in Lutheran circles, though I *have* heard much about Gods love, mercy, forgiveness and grace. As I think youre hinting here, a certain amount of theology (what proportion, I dont know) is in reality nothing more than a minority social science. I will be honest JeffS and JeffB , I am often confused by the moving target that you described before. These are things that we can work on together, no matter our view on election. Like one Cal would say, Cals do not believe Z, stop saying Cals believe in Z, but then five posts later, another Cal would sit there in the same thread and defend Z, say Cals were right and proper to believe in Z, and Z has lots of Scriptural support. JeffS we were writing at the same time. They should not get to define theology that has been around much longer than them. my reformed acquaintances pushing the calvinist pillars. Im not saying I agree with everything in the WCF, but its a really large hurdle to overcome to show that something it directly states is misrepresentative of Reformed thology/Calvinism without a mountain of evidence to support it. After all, you could be wrong. In some respects we all do that. This is my personal Faithlife account. Pushing Calvin on a hurting individual is like pushing steak on an infant. It usually starts out with something like this. This may sound like its contradictory, but I dont think it is. When you get called a heretic,"barely a Christian" or whatever, think of it this way. Ever. But so what.
Five reasons Calvinism is a false doctrine | by Keith Rivas - Medium Hmmm all I can say is, it depends on the individual and in what way theyre hurting. The correct understanding of any belief system shouldnt be of importance when Jesus says to come to him as a child. 3:1-2) is saying that their are parts of the Word that are more elementary than others, not that those parts are any less important. Nope. In other words, there are plenty of people who are not part of this movement. Yes, I believe that what were on earth mainly to do is bring glory to God The few times we have joined her at her church the pastor has focused on being examples of love and doing good in the community. Any small error can lead us on to some very large mistakes if we arent careful. Bad theology dishonors God and hurts people. So, for example, we just did this study of the WCF with a a group at my church. I may be wrong, but I think Enns is a Calvinist. Thats why. 3) The reason for a woman to study scripture is to better serve her husband, father, children.
Calvinism | Desiring God As leader of the Anti-Revolutionary Party in the Netherlands he served as Prime Minister of his country from 1901 to 1905. He also read the Gospel of John for the first time, (it was given to him), while smoking pot. I cant explain it, but the very thought of it is a testimony to His love for us ALL. So if you say oh yes, bringing God glory is the sole reason for mankind without ever pushing back like you did, elastigirl, their tacit assumption is that you have just conceded the soundness of their doctrine. Everything just fell apart. Im concerned with the preoccupation of defending Calvin when someone is hurting. Study some good books that present the non-Calvinist point of view. Horton made it clear that he did not agree with all of Olson's assertions. Grabs your hand and raises your arm & enthusiastically shows you off as The winner and still the champ! Feels your joy with you. Does this sound like a CULT(TM) to you? Can they wrestle with it on their own? We are very clear that we do not see men as the only abusers nor abuse inherently a gender issue. Arguing these issues sends me down the crazy cycle of shame, pain, abandonment, God not hearing me, etc. German-American theologian and philosopher Paul Tillich is remembered for his work in the field of Christian existentialism and for concepts such as the method of correlation. Pastor daddy Mike Baker is furious and says he's been mistreated-"slander," etc. God doesnt have internal conflicts, though sometimes the Bible portrays it this way to make a point. Would you want to answer that one? I just checked my Google News and there was an Associated Press story marking 20 years since Al Mohler took over SBTS. It is counterproductive., I dont understand, then, why, on your blog, you allowed a Calvinism Free For All. I didnt notice any Calvinists telling people that God wanted you to be raped, or something like that. In both cases, mans mind is wholly incapable of real understanding. Best Overall non calvinist systematic theology: This non calvinist systematic theology is the king of the hill. Okay, that makes it a little less OCD. I.E. I. Howard Marshall 28. I know of Hortons book and I shall read that after I finish Olson. So MY goals when I talk about Calvinism here on the forum are to a) clear up misconceptions that would cause people to unnecessarily reject the theology so that they can know for real what it is they are rejecting. Any benefit we get from His death (i.e., salvation) is great, but if we act like we are too focused on salvation, we are selfish and may not even be saved.. He said he found comfort from it. The list 21st-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians includes Gary North (Christian Reconstructionist), Stephen Tong, D. A. Carson, John F. MacArthur and R. C. Sproul. The promises are over the top. There is something that has been horribly misinterpreted in the verse about All things work together for good..etc It has almost created a cult of catastrophe. All the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, major liturgical Protestant groups like Lutheran and Anglican, and the Arminian/Methodist/Holiness line, which would include many Charismatics, Non-denominational, etc. If theyre not slaughtering each other, theyre blowing up each others Mosques so to speak. There are sound Christian people out there who are willing to admit this. Hi guys, great posts, esp (from a personal point of view) from Jeff S, TW, Nick Bulbeck and others its been such a long thread I cant remember them all . Yes! It is not love to push Calvin. Of course Calvinism is not the only theological construct that has been used to hurt people. Earthquakes, tsunamis, category five tornadoes, decrepitude and death are all beyond our pay-grades to decide upon, much less get resolution from. In that case they are probably reading an interpretation of what Calvin actually wrote. That should be enough to cause himto squirm. Dark times. I dont know that any of the venues get one closer to God than the others. And if you reject the doctrine as it has been historically understood (like the guy at my church), then at least you are wrestling with a time tested theology, not a new fad, and wrestling with time tested theology can only help you grow as a Christian. Sydney Anglicans are Calvinist, Moore College is strongly Calvinist, as of course are the Presbyterians and some Baptists. I did not but I definitely got the immigrant part and am proud of m Russian heritage. As I wrote above, He uses His will and our wills to accomplish His ends. So I Must Be! as the indicator. Ive not tried to convince anyone that they are sinful or wrong for not believing what I believe. It's because Caleb was allegedly involved in multiple sexual relationships while on staff at daddy's church and he was, The Gospel Coalition now says not everyone can be a missionary. I dont think so, but Im pretty sure Spock was a Calvinist. Im just genuinely puzzled about this. We can just debate doctrine. He isnt at cross-purposes with Himself, so the question is silly. He also read the Gospel of John for the first time, (it was given to him), while smoking pot, @ Headless Unicorn Guy:YOu should see my Christmas tree. I didnt say childish. Thank you for letting me know what you think Jesus meant. Below is an OP from 2006. As for being Lutheran, I think people get this confused sometimes as if all Lutherans follow everything Luther wrote. (I mean, Star Trek?). And this is the crux of the problem. The WCF clearly states that God is not the author of sin. How one can be labeled an Arminian after a decade and a half as an SGM bobblehead is beyond me. Heal their parents broken hearts and lives? When people have been hurt by something they have come to realize was wrong, they will present their disagreements with fervor. This is a big issue for me, because theres a difference in believing in PSA and believing it is central to the Gospel or that believing a different atonement theology is a different Gospel. Anyway, its an article called Are There Two Wills In God?, 3) The reason for a woman to study scripture is to better serve her husband, father, children. I think these are minor issues, but it is what it is. @ Daisy: @ JeffB: I even like some mean Calvinists. They alone have truth in ALL things, by Gods special revelation. I also want to learn to be a bit more like Olson, showing kindness in the midst of disagreement. That if we are only a little totally depraved we might only get a little condemned by God, and not die? But, if, during an online conversation about Calvinism, someone writes that the discussion is disturbing to him/her, certain questions arise beyond the obvious point that its wrong to attack that person: Should the conversation be halted? Groovy, man. Thanks for the recommendation. I used try but I have given up. I am a new Methodist pastor, a woman who has a great deal of respect for people who love the Lord and are serious about their study. There are some big ones where I do not agree (for example, he is quite patriarchal, even though he doesnt make as big a deal about it as some of the more outspoken complementarians). I think you will see that there are real differences: http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/reformed-theology/arminianism/calvinism-vs-arminianism-comparison-chart/, What do you think I see within Calvinism that might make it hard for me to accept that system? I think you may have answered that in your post: I told her that we, as non-Calvinists, have to move beyond what we believe is the logical conclusion of their argument (God orchestrating evil and pain) and try to understand that somehow Calvinists, who suggest a God who allows for abuse, is actually a God of love. Could we continue this discussion under the more recent Calvinist post, For Calvinists? There are days I really have to remind myself that God still very much loves people who have little love or respect for me or other Arminian Christians. I think a better question would be: Why should He want to stop me? Nope. To derive strength from and grow like a shoot from a huge old oak tree. I did not but I definitely got the immigrant part and am proud of m Russian heritage. Concerning double predestination: If by it you mean that God makes people sin so that he can judge them and send them to hell no, I dont think the Bible says that.
List of Christian theologians - Wikipedia The thread on JAs blog really threw me off kilter. He started out not sure where he stood. But the rest of the bad stuff? I want people to love God and love their neighbors. Why is Calvin even part of the discussion, period? . That is biblical. Im a musician in a band the skill level I have now is directly proportional to how many times Ive absolutely made a total fool of myself in front of people. I am not wrong. It is the place for me, but maybe not for you. So when people try to argue logical conclusions of my beliefs, I tend to get upset if they arent conclusions that I arrive at. LOLGod works in mysterious and wonderful ways! (Keep in mind Sproul Jr.s insistence that God always acts according to his strongest desire.). I liked that. I know this sounds like a broad brush, but I think people need to know this dirty little secret. I am not faulting anyone or saying that Calvinists are lazy. LOVE, this comment at a whole, Muff. Just a few thoughts for you. Chezaro 6 yr. ago. We were just grateful to be around otherChristians. My Aunt-in-law is one of the best living examples of Christ I know, I dont find her obsessed with doctrine, but she completely loves her neighbour. On the other thread, I commented about the issue of sovereignty and the misunderstanding a lot of people have about the concept of sovereignty. Wife (whose abusive first husband was one of the biggest drug dealers in the Midwest before she divorced him) was my Lamaze coach. And its a big enough issue that RC Sproul re-badges it to Radical Corruption. All I can say is that I do the best I have with the mind Ive been given. It was written by.
21st-century Calvinist and Reformed theologians - FamousFix List Also, Jesus talked a lot about hell. And those of us who see the logical cause and effect of Calvinism-to-abuse are against Calvinism because we dont WANT the powers that be to be the power any more. I can't get thereeither on the basis of the argument (I have heard it all and tried). Man is completely helpless in his sinful state, is under the . Yes, Jeff S. It is important to try and balance the need to have a voice and going too vitriolic. And if we go to ourselves, were going to get something like what elastigirl wrote above. Some of his hearers might have been scared as, uh, heck. Lets get this person through their crisis and love on them. I didnt say we should be satisfied with the milk of the word. If we are acting primarily out of love, this becomes good works and is worthless. Feels your pain with you. Julie Anne: They want pure milk easy to digest, soothing, warms their tummy, meets their needs, gives comfort, nourishes them and helps them grow. And later, mamas milkexactly what they need at the precise time they need it., Nick: Some, myself included, who spent years in controlling and abusive churches would say that to be infantilised is the last thing we need..